Joe Rogan’s interview with Wes Huff has reached millions of views. As a (now former) non-Joe Rogan fan, I wanna say that it is well worth the 3 hours, not least for Rogan’s masterful conversational style.

Until last week Wesley Huff was little known outside the icy lands of Canada. Huff is an academic and Christian apologist who is currently undertaking PhD studies in the New Testament field. His field of expertise relates to ancient texts, in particular studying ancient New Testament manuscripts. In case you’re thinking that this is the making of a somewhat dry and brief Rogan episode, think again.

If you’re keen, here is the link to the interview. My interest here is not to regurgitate the entire 3 hours or comment on every online response. I’m interested in one salient point that came out during the interview and which has stirred the waters since.

During the interview, Wes made a series of assertions about Jesus in quick succession,

“You have this Jewish itinerant guy who is walking around Roman occupied first century Judea, he is making some pretty audacious claims; he claims to be God himself and then he predicts his own death and resurrection…’

It’s the line about Jesus ‘audaciously going around claiming to be God Himself’ that has grabbed attention and has created something of a stir. Isn’t it fascinating how Jesus’ identity remains a hot topic today as it was during his lifetime? No matter how many elements of culture try to tame Jesus, he continues to surprise and subvert and reignite interest.

Alex O’Connor is a popular YouTube influencer with more than 1 million followers on his ‘CosmicSkeptic’ Channel. He put together a response to the Rogan interview and has tried to dissect and rebut some of Huff’s statements. Gavin Ortlund has done a fine job responding to O’Connor’s critique. I want to speak to this one particular objection O’Connor made to Wed Huff, and that is, Jesus claimed to be God, 

“[Jesus] was audaciously going around claiming to be God Himself. I don’t think that’s true. Nowhere in Mark, Matthew, or Luke does Jesus actually claim to be God in His own words. At best it’s just in John’s Gospel that divine claims begin to appear.”

O’Connor’s suggestion is big news, if true. If he’s right, it undercuts 2000 years of Christianity and in all probability, destroys Christianity’s credibility. Of course, his claim isn’t new. I’d be surprised if you haven’t heard people making similar conclusions whether in your own education or among friends. In 2015, Australia’s Phillip Adams interviewed Frederic Raphael where Raphael threw out as though it was vernacular truth, ‘the Jews who would not accept that Jesus was the Son of God, nor of course did Jesus’. 

Who is right, O’Connor or Huff? In our cyber connected world that’s deluged with opinions and comments and points of view, finding the truth can be tricky. Sometimes it feels as though the truth has been locked in a vault and cast into a blackhole somewhere past Uranus and well beyond our scope. 

And the question of Jesus’ Divinity is about as big a question as they come. It is not, however, one of the questions where we are left to ruminate and wonder and remain in the dark. We can go to the sources and investigate for ourselves (which is one of Huff’s main theses). Scholarship and academia is useful and insightful (can be), but one of the qualities of the Bible is that it is an every person’s book. Anyone can read and grapple with it for themselves. When it comes to the question, ‘Did Jesus claim to be God’?, open a Bible and find out.

Is it the case that Jesus claimed to be God? The question, is Jesus God?, is slightly different from the former one, but they are nonetheless intimately connected.

Obviously, this is a huge topic and one could write a 27-volume tome exploring it, but I suspect few would read it (including myself). Plus, I’m currently on holidays and so brevity is the way to go. What I wish to do here is note a few places that indicate not only Jesus’ Divinity, but also demonstrate that Jesus understood himself to be God the Son. 

In the below list of Jesus quotations, I am including ones from John’s Gospel, because John, like the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) belongs to the New Testament Canon. O Connor wants John excluded from the discussion (presumably because he thinks John is a 2nd-century document, a view which scholarship widely discounts today).  Imagine a detective explaining to the court, that we have discarded this this evidence because it doesn’t fit with the conclusions we had already made!

Each Gospel, including each of the synoptic gospels, offer different perspectives and material and emphases, but none contradict the other others, but rather they complement one another. The fact that there are a couple of details that leave scholars scratching their heads to this day, says more about our own limitations than it does about the Bible texts where there is extraordinary coherence and synthesis.

Even if we take up O’Connor’s challenge and leave John’s Gospel aside, there is ample evidence that displays Jesus’ self awareness of being God. But given John’s place in the Canon, I will at times include Johannine references. 

The clear but subtle awareness of Jesus’ Godness

Jesus’ ministry was not set in 21st-century Australia or America, as though he is answering our questions by using stories about the iPhone or analogies from cricket or Taylor Swift. Jesus was a first-century Jew.  He lived in a Roman occupied region and who’s ideas, words, and actions were consciously steeped in and fulfilling Old Testament themes and promises. That means, that when Jesus talks about himself, he regularly deferred to the Jewish Scriptures and spoke in those categories. One of the implications of this is that as we understand the meaning of Old Testament names and images for God and we see Jesus applying them to himself, we begin to see a picture of the One who says he is God.

Take for example, the title, Shepherd. Shepherd has connotations with King David and therefore Messianic expectations, but in places like Ezekiel ch.34,  God equates himself to shepherd who will come, deliver, protect and provide for his people, 

“‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. 12 As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. 13 I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. 14 I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.”

Famously in John 10, Jesus declares, ‘I am the Good Shepherd’. Not only does Jesus speak the unspeakable name of God, he attributes the name to himself (ἐγώ εἰμι).  Jesus sums up his person as the God who is the Good Shepherd. For those who wish to keep John’s Gospel to the side for this debate, it’s not only John’s Gospel that makes the connection between Jesus, God and Shepherd. The Synoptics also do this (cf Matt 2:6; Mark 6:34). In Matthew, Jesus explains his own mission as coming to find the ‘lost sheep of Israel’ (Matt 15:24). Now, is this an explicit claim of personal Divinity? When read in its context, Jesus certainly seems to be making the case. 

Another motif that comes from the lips of Jesus is that of Divine forgiveness. He not only taught that God forgives sins, he did so. When Jesus forgave sins, both his interlocutors and adversaries understood the Divine authority Jesus supposed behind his words, 

“Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” (Luke 5:21). It is this charge of blasphemy against Jesus that sets the trajectory of opposition toward Jesus and which ultimately leads to his crucifixion. 

The themes of Shepherd and forgiveness are but 2 of many that are taken up by Jesus to ascribe and describe himself and his ministry and mission. There is subtleness in much of Jesus’ language and today’s readers may not pick up the connections if we’re unfamiliar with the Old Testament, but one thing is clear, Jesus’ enemies got the message, and with time Jesus own disciples and friends also understood: Jesus is saying that he’s God.

Jesus’ self revelation as God is not restricted to his words, but also to his life and deeds. Whether it is controlling a storm at sea or raising the Lazarus from the dead or throwing out demons and evil spirits, his life repeatedly signals more than a man of great kindness and love and strength, but one who is excising Divine authority and purpose.

Jesus’ words

“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.” Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” (Matthew 4:6-7)

‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” (Matthew 22:32)

“It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.  Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life”.  (John 6:45-47)

“Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live”. (John 5:25)

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58)

Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. (John 8:54)

“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)

“Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.  But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:36-38)

“How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work” (John 14:9b-10)

The many ‘I AM’ sayings of Jesus in John’s Gospel are less about English grammar and is the holy name of Israel’s God, revealed to Moses at the burning bush. The religious intelligentsia rightly understood Jesus’ use of the phrase as calling himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 

In addition, Jesus’ most frequently used title was ‘Son of Man. While it’s meaning was somewhat enigmatic, Jesus spoke and acted in ways that accorded with the Old Testament and therefore it is difficult to conclude that Jesus viewed the title, ‘Son of Man’, in a way that differed from its use in Daniel chapter 7, where the ‘Son of Man’ is described as one who is given the authority and power of God, and is worshiped accordingly.

What about the Great Commission in Matthew 28:16-20? Here are told that 11 disciples (remember Judas Iscariot had killed himself) are meeting with the resurrected Jesus and worshipping him as God. Like a document that doesn’t whitewash history, Matthew notes that some still doubted, but generally speaking, the penny has dropped and the disciples are worshipping Jesus as God. Does Jesus reject this homage? Instead, he claims an authority that only God has and he reveals the One God (notice how Jesus says, ‘the name’ singular) who is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 

“Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

This is a crystal clear example of Jesus claiming to be God and accepting worship as God.

Words from others that Jesus did not repudiate

“The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” ((Matthew 4:3)

“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” (Matthew 8:29)

“Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” (Matthew 14:33)

“Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16)

“Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided. Then they turned again to the blind man, “What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened.” (John 9:16-17)

“When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.” The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” (Luke 5:20-21)

“Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” (John 10:31-33)

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.” (John 11:27)

“Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)

The reason for Jesus’ crucifixion

Jesus wasn’t crucified because he was leading a rebellion or not being nice to his neighbours. Authorities wanted Jesus dead because he claimed to be God. 

“For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God”. (John 5:18)

“The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.” (John 19:7)

You can’t ignore the rest of the New Testament

Alex O’Connor suggests that we leave John’s Gospel aside and he doesn’t even entertain what the rest of the New Testament shows us about Jesus’ identity. In this, he’s mimicking Red Letter Christians who surmise that Jesus’ words are the only ones we need to take seriously, as opposed to other bible words and writers. That fails to read the New Testament on its own terms and it fails to take Jesus’ own words seriously

Not only does Jesus insist that all Scripture is about him and fulfilled in him, he spells out to his disciples that under the direction of the Holy Spirit they will teach and provide what we call today the ‘Apostolic testimony’, which is the foundation of Christian truth and life today. Jesus won’t let us think that the disciples’ words are somehow less true or reliable than his. Rather, their words are his words. What Peter, John, and later Paul would write to the churches can be trusted. Their theology of God is Jesus’. Their insistence on both the humanity and the Deity of Christ is perfectly in sync with Jesus.

“the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning. (John 15:26-27)

To summarise the evidence:

• On numerous occasions Jesus indicated that he is God’s Son.
• Jesus’ opponents believed that Jesus was claiming to be God, and for the said reason they had him killed.
• Many people believed that Jesus was God and Jesus did not correct them
• Jesus’ life, character, works, miracles, death and resurrection are unique in the entire history of the world, and each adds weight to his claim of Divinity, not detracts.
• The first Christians, many of whom were eye-witnesses to the life of Jesus and others were at one time opponents, were prepared to suffer imprisonment and even death for the confession, Jesus is Lord.

Conclusion

The evidence weighs heavily against Alex O Connor and falls in agreement with Wesley  Huff. Jesus made pretty audacious claims, claiming to be God. 

Dripping from this key question of whether Jesus is God, there are all kinds of topics and issues relating to the most momentous things. What kind of God is he? What does it mean for the world if Jesus is God? What does it say about the world? What does this say about me?”

The question of Jesus’ Divinity is more than an interesting topic of conversation among friends or for a podcast. It is too big and important to remain stuck in the books of academics and theologians and philosophers. This world could not contain the message of Jesus Christ in the first century, neither can it today. It demands our attention. Let me finish with the question Jesus once asked of Peter, ‘Who do you say I am?”